- So when I did that Ignite Off, I really enjoyed that presentation. It probably was the favorite part of my internship, - Right. - And I just kind of thought to myself like, okay, where can I find a job description that's similar to like, where I have to do these things? Where, you know, I see the big picture, I'm like, you know, what are we doing? Who are we doing this for? Who are the users? What are we building them stuff for? And like, you know, along that line I found something about Product Management. I had no idea what that was at that point. And I'm like, what is this, so like what? It was similar to like the feeling I got during that presentation. I did a bunch of reading about that, you know, cracking the PM interviews like the Bible for this role. So I read that, you know, got a lot more insight into it, and I was like, okay, yeah, this feels similar to that experience. And I can get, you know, I can be user-centric. I can see the big picture, I can build things for people. I can also, you know, get to interact, talk to a lot of people in different spaces. And I was like, oh yeah, I wanna do this. - [Narrator] This is the ORISE Featurecast. Join host Michael Holtz for conversations with ORISE experts on STEM workforce development, scientific and technical reviews, and the evaluation of radiation exposure and environmental contamination. You'll also hear from ORISE research program participants and their mentors, as they talk about their experiences, and how they are helping shape the future of science. Welcome to the ORISE Featurecast. - Welcome to another episode of the ORISE Featurecast. As ever, I'm your host, Michael Holtz in the communications and marketing department at ORISE. And today I have the great privilege of talking with, Seni Adeniji, who is a Product Manager at Microsoft, and is a former ORISE participant in the NESLS Program at ORNL, at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. We're gonna talk about all of that, mentorship, his passion for all things STEM, and how he wants to encourage and ignite that passion in other people, so. First, let me welcome you, Seni. Welcome to the ORISE featurecast. I'm so glad you're here. - Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's great to be here. Awesome to do this. - So you were a former participant in the Nuclear Engineering Science Laboratory Synthesis Program at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Globally, talk about what that program is, and then, kind of how you got there. - Yeah, this, it was actually here, it was one of my most enjoyable internships, if I can remember. More enjoyable internships, actually. Yeah. So it was, this was I think in 2018, 2019, kind of when I was looking for an internship in college. - Okay - And I was, I have a computer science background, but I think, you know, initially I signed up the software engineering route, but you know, software engineering just didn't quite do it for me. - Okay - I felt like, you know, I could do it, maybe if I had to, I had some experiences in it, but, I personally didn't have a burning passion for it. And I didn't feel like the ceiling was that high compared to other things that I could do. So I just, you know, was looking for other things to do, you know, came across like, you know, an opportunity to know, ORAU and ORNL combined, and it was the NESLS program. You know, I found this through, I think it was Zintellect, that I was on. - Right, yep. - And yeah, I found it, you know, the, just read through like the description like, you know, I think everyone would, and you know, and it sounded appealing, it sounded interesting. It was something different, you know, I'd never really been on that part of the side, I grew in Tennessee, you know, just the, I guess the area of it, and just like the opportunity as well. And it was gonna be at a national lab, it was gonna be something completely different. I ended up doing like data visualization type of stuff there and that, that sounded exciting. So the entire appeal of the program was just like, it was there for me. And you know, I applied for it, you know, did like, I did an interview, you know, I spoke to my, I guess manager/mentor at the time, Paul Miller. - Uh huh. - And you know, we just kind of hit it off. Things went well. Ended up getting an offer for that program. And I did it in the summer of 2019 and, I guess we could talk more about it, but, it was definitely an enjoyable process. I learned a lot, met a lot of good people. Leslie Fox being one of the people that connected us today. - Uh huh, absolutely. - I mean, just learned a lot. Got a good, lot of good advice. And it really, I would say, you know, just helped me as I defined things going forward from that point. I would say it was a great experience. Yes. - Awesome. So what did you do specifically in, as a participant in the NESLS Program? - Okay. Yeah. Trying to remember all the details. - I know, I know it's been a little while, right? - Four, five years ago now. But yeah, I did a data realization program. So what I did was like, you know, on a spent nuclear fuel back then. - Okay. - I didn't know a lot about like nuclear engineering actually when I actually came into this. So it was a very good opportunity for me to learn more, you know, so we worked on a program, I had to develop like some projects like models about like, you know, the spent nuclear fuel canisters they were using and making sure that like, you know, things were going well and like, you know, I think one thing I learned at that, on that project was, you know, just how used nuclear fuels are stored, or like, you know, how they're disposed. It's a very big thing and it's like, you know, how can we do it right, you know, what's the right way and just all the different things involved in that space. So my primary job in that space is a data visualization analyst, which is, you know, creating models, graphs to kind of represent the data that we had related to like spent nuclear fuel, used nuclear fuel, in that space. - Awesome. Awesome. So, you have a great experience in the NESLS program at ORNL. How did you make the, the leap, the move to, now you're a Product Manager at Microsoft. What was that, what was, I guess trajectory for that? - Yeah, I would say, yeah, so Product Manager at Microsoft, I guess that's one of the reasons why I said I really enjoyed the internship. I actually found that role kind of through the Oak Ridge National Lab. - Okay. - And I'll tell a very interesting story. So while I was at ORNL and I was doing the NESLS Program, there's an interesting competition, I don't know if you've heard of it. It's called the Ignite Off - Oh yeah, absolutely. - Competition with a bunch other national labs, which is this 15 minutes presentation, was a five minutes presentation, you know, just 20 slides, it's just pictures on there, you know. It teaches you a lot about public speaking, but you also have to know a lot about the project to like, you know, what is going on; because to tell an entire story without having a lot of words on the slides, you know. So doing that, I guess Ignite Off, cause I participated in that. I had to learn a lot about the project. Like, oh, why are we doing this? Like, you know, where's the funding coming from? Like, you know, what's the end goal? Who are we doing this for? Just, I guess seeing the bigger picture than just like, you know, the data stuff that I was initially doing. And I think that entire experience was just very enjoyable. And I recently just talked about, you know, doing a CS degree, you know, kind of doing software engineering affairs and data visualization. One thing that's a common theme there is I was trying to figure out what exactly I like, and like, you know, what space I would end up doing in, like, you know, just computer science, software engineering space. So when I did that Ignite Off, I really enjoyed that presentation. It probably was the favorite part of my internship. - Right. - And I just kind of thought to myself like, okay, where can I find a job description that's similar to like, where I have to do this things where, you know, - I see the big picture and like, you know, what are we doing? Who are we doing this for? Who are the users? - Mhmm - What are we building them stuff for? And like, you know, along that line, I found something about Product Management. I had no idea what that was at that point. And I'm like, what is the, so like what, it was similar to like the feeling I got during that presentation. I did a bunch of reading about that, you know, cracking the PM interviews, like the Bible for this role. So I read that, you know, got a lot more insight into it, and I was like, okay, yeah, this feels similar to that experience, you know, I can get, you know, I can be user-centric, I can see the big picture, I can build things for people. I can also, you know, get to interact, talk to a lot of people in different spaces. And I was like, oh yeah, I wanna do this. So just moving forward now, I started talking to people. I used LinkedIn a lot. I think everybody should use LinkedIn very much. - Mhmm. - So I met a lot of people there, spoke to people, got more insight. And that was just how I started my transition into like, you know, Product Management. So I did an internship, you know, interviewed for a bunch of places that have Product Management roles. I did an internship in there and I kind of enjoyed it. I was like, okay, yes, this has some of the things, I mean, there was not a one-to-one method of like, you know, what exactly I'd experienced in there, but there were a lot of overlaps. And I was like, okay, I think I kinda like this. And that was like the transition into like, you know, Product Management, and what I currently do right now. - Awesome. So hats off to the Ignite Off competition. - Absolutely. - And networking, right? - Yeah, for sure. I mean, 100% recommended. I think that Ignite Off was, it was a lot of fun, like, you know, just doing the presentation, the person that actually won the competition, we actually shared, I guess an office together at the NESLS Program. - Uh huh. - So she's a NESLS participant as well too. And yeah, it was really good. Like just meeting people and like you mentioned, networking I think, you know, is one of the most pivotal things in every single thing we do in life. So, yeah, absolutely. - So I understand that you have this tremendous passion for all things STEM. Seni, where does that come from? Have you been, were you involved in science from, or interested in science from a young age? Was it something that came to you, in high school, in college? - Yeah, so I, I don't know if you know this, but I was actually born, raised, grew up in Nigeria, the entire time. - Okay. - I had a lot of like STEM focus back then. I was in science studies the entire time. I think my favorite subjects back in high school - Awesome. - were actually math, math and physics. So, I think just along the line, it's kind of always been there. I wouldn't say it was like natural, like I woke up and like, you know, I was just like, yeah, I am reading physics books when I was five or six. - Today's the day. - Yeah, nothing, nothing like that. But, I think just like going into high school, I think, and for us, you know, after, three years after high school, so when, I think that's what year, 7, 8, 9. So year nine we kind of have to make a decision if you wanna go with the science route or if you wanna go like the arts, your business side. - Gotcha. - And I made the decision to just go through the science side and you know, from there, you know, just did a bunch of physics and it just kept coming, coming. I was like, okay, I guess I kind of like this. And I just, it was just enjoyable from there. So I would say like, you know, the science part has kind of always been, you know, from early ages, high school, all of that. And then, through that it's just morphed into other things. You know, initially it was math and physics and then there was computer science and you know, they did a nuclear engineering program, and now it's Product Management. So kind of in that same realm, - Uh huh. - but it has kinda always been there. - I would think that along the way then, there were teachers and mentors that poured into you and helped foster that interest so that you kept going and, and wanted to learn more and, and you know, sort of added, you know, physics, the computer science, et cetera. - Yeah. - Talk about some, talk about some of those folks. - Yeah, absolutely, you know. If I think back at it now, I think some of those folks I appreciate a lot more now than I did back then. - 'Cause, you know, back then it was just like, oh my God, do I have to be doing this? But you know, now it's like, oh my God, I'm thankful you made me do that. And so, you know, it's one of those things. But yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, if I try to remember back from like, you know, high school, you know, I can remember a couple of names I had, and a man called Mr. Oke. He just took a, you know, he took a liking to me and like he definitely like, you know, gave me a lot of interesting advice. Some I didn't want at that point, but now thankfully I had it. - He was a really good person in that space. You know, I had, you know, my physics teacher back then, Mr. Shaw. He was a very interesting person as well, too. Like, you know, we kind of had a lot of back and forth, physics, but I think looking back, he just wanted me to be the best me that I could be. So I think, yeah, that was a really good one. So yeah, those two for sure like, stand out in my head and like, you know, coming to, you know, coming to America is one too. Which I came here for college before like, you know, work and everything like, you know. Had an uncle as one too, like, you know, named Alex. He was the one that actually opened my mind just to like the entire computer science and like, the realm of whatever's possible. 'Cause like I mentioned early, I think, you know, a lot of times people think computer science and then software engineering, that's just synonymous to that. But you know, he kind of opened my eyes like, you know, just the limitless opportunities of like, oh, what you could do, what you couldn't do and all that kind of stuff. And like I think for him, I'm very thankful and just along that way, you know, I've had to have mentors that like, you know, I think networking. When I think about networking, I actually had a call with this one guy, his name is Malik, right before I started the ORNL internship, he gave me a lot of tremendous advice, and like, you know, - Awesome. - advice that I was able to utilize at the internship and like, you know, just paid good dividends for me I would say. So like, you know, he was great as well. So I think one common theme I would say is like, you know, of course I've had people like, you know, over the years of kind of being constant, but, I think just the ability to know, like there's different areas that you wanna learn and the different people are really getting different things and just being able to take from all those people. So it's almost like, I think someone gave me an advice once and it was like, you know, just be like a sponge and absorb a lot of things. And I've tried to do that with people, you know, we could be on this thing and you'd say something that I'm just like, oh, that makes a lot of sense, and I'll take it. And you've kinda poured some subtle mentorship into your advice or guidance. So I've taken a lot of that, you know, from teachers and like, you know, professors, and like, you know, managers or like, you know, places I've interned and just keeping up with those people checking in from time to time has definitely been like, you know, super helpful just so far in life. - Awesome. What about the, sort of the other side of that coin is you sort of mentoring and pouring into other people. Have you had the opportunity to do that and... - Yeah. - Is that something that you enjoy as well? - Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I have, I do it a lot that I absolutely love it, I think, like, and I think back at like, you know, some of the reasons why, you know, I'm interested in like, you know, helping other people or like, you know, with their job search or just like, you know, in their careers, or in school. As you know, I think I had a very, you know, interesting background trying to figure out, you know, up until where I am, I'm still even figuring out the things I want too going forward, you know. Like I said, it wasn't just straight up, you know, initially I was like, oh, I like math and physics. I'm like all, all the way, now I'm doing computer science, and like, initially it was like C++ and like Java and Python and all those things. - Right. - And then all of a sudden it was like, eh, nah, you know, not this. And then I'm doing data visualization. At some point I was doing product strategy, and at some point I did a internship where I was 3D printing engineering type of thing. So, I've kind of had just this way of like, you know, it wasn't direct and I was looking for what I wanted to do. I was trying a bunch of different things and like, I learned a lot just through that entire figuring out what I needed to do. And at some point now it's Product Management and, it just wasn't a straight line. - Yeah. - And I think there's a lot of people in that same position where, you know, it might not be exactly the same, but, they're sort of looking for, oh, how do I figure out what's next? How do I do the the right thing? Who am I talking to? Like, where can I go? And I think, you know, I, because I went through that, you know, and in some ways I'm thankful I did, 'cause it gave me a lot of insights, you know, a lot of ways to like navigate things. You know, I kind of took it upon me as like there's a lot of people out there experiencing the same thing. So, I kind of wanted to help them as well too. So at some point you know, I'll do 15 minute calls on LinkedIn, or 30 minute calls from people that reach out, or in my school, and things like that. And then, you know, the calls did get overwhelming at some point because like, I was doing a lot of the same calls and saying a lot of the same things. So I kind of took it up on myself of like, how do I create more durable, like things to kind of help people? So I started writing, you know, about my experiences and about, you know, technology and just like, you know, things that I'm interested in, ways that I learned and things I feel like people should know. Potentially it could be helpful to them. So I did that, and that way, you know, when people reach out now I'm able to direct them to like, you know, these living documents. And that helps me as well, too because you know, kind of like, we're just trying to remember my, all my own experiences, like, oh my god, what did I do? But I think also just for writing those experiences there's some sort of living doc that I can go read an article I wrote four years ago. Like, oh my God, I did this, this is interesting and like, you know. In some ways it was a good way for me to document my life and just kind of reflect. But, you know, as it relates to like helping people, like just showing them like, okay, here's kind of how I went. There's something that worked for me, there's something that could work for you. Or, if you flipped it this way it could work for you. And things like that. So, I would say that's definitely something that I have kind of taken upon myself to do. - It sounds like you kinda have a book in the making there Seni with... - There, there, there has to be a book at Safeway. You know, my friends have said that, but you know, I don't know if we're there yet. There's a lot of the story that still being written and that will be written, so yeah, - Right. - Sometime like, you know, in the future there will be a book there. - Awesome. That's great. You, you said that, you know, you went to, you grew up in and went to high school in Nigeria. You came to the United States to go to college. What was that transition like? What was the cultural, I guess change? Was there culture shock in making that transition? Or was it, smooth-ish? Was it... - Yeah, I, I, I think a little bit of both. You know, trying to like remember some details now. I mean I did have my brother here, so my brother's like here, - Okay - you know, he was in, he was in the area. So like, you know, I didn't feel like I came here all alone and I was all by myself. So having some family here when I've kind of been here, I know my brother, and his wife and like her family. So there was some sort of like, you know, family ties and connections and stability at that point. But, I think it doesn't change the fact that I was born and raised somewhere my entire life, - certain way, and then I just uprooted that, I moved, you know, it was like I had friends there, I had, you know, routine. I had life and these things there. So I had to come here, and like rebuild all of that. And you know, in some ways like, you know, some parts of it were hard, 'cause like, you know, I think sometimes you think you just come and like, you know, oh boom, you just get it running. And like, you know, in one semester everything is all good. But yeah, it took, I'll definitely say it took some time, like, you know, but, just kind of having some sort of family there was like a, was some sort of like stable factor. I also got this very interesting advice when I first came; my uncle told me, sports is something that brings people together. So the more sports I watch, and the more sports I know, the easier it would be for me to like, make friends and get along with people. And I kind of took that to heart. I actually, I watched the NBA and the NFL and golf and tennis and I just took that to the whole new level and it actually did help. So that way was how I got to make friends in school. I remember like my first couple classes in college, you know, people talking about basketball, I'm like, oh, okay. I can, I can say some things there. I didn't know I had that, but, and, up until that point I rarely ever watched basketball, like, you know, - Sure. - it wasn't something. So, that way I started interacting with people and like, you know, getting to know people and like, you know, I guess just kind of learning along the way. So, I wouldn't say like, you know, it was easy because, like I said, I had to start a lot of things over again. I had to figure a lot of things out. So some things, you know, I'm still like, oh, oh my god that makes sense. Like, you know, this is why I think this way because I've always thought this way and like, you know, things like that. And it's like a constant learning process. But, it definitely has been good. Like I've met a lot of good people, kind of like, you know, over the past six, seven years now. Like just, you know, mentors or even friends - Mhmm - or just, you know, just associates from different places. Like, you know, I've talked about Leslie that connected us, you know, with someone that I met through my internship and I've stayed in touch with her the entire time, and she's been absolutely great. Helped me a lot through my internship, you know, where we check in from time to time as well. She's amazing. So, it's a lot of that, that has just kind of helped along the way. So yeah, I'll definitely say that. - Awesome. I feel like I don't need to ask you this, but obviously you would, you would recommend an ORISE fellowship experience to anybody, who might be interested in pursuing a career in, in the STEM field? - Yeah, I mean, absolutely. You know, if you have the opportunity, I would start from just that personal life part, and then I'll talk about more about, you know, how you could actually learn in that space. But you know, going to Tennessee to intern was a very, you know, it was a very good experience, and man, I'm glad I did it. You know, first I met a couple folk at that internship, that I'm still in touch with to date, which is very interesting. Some of them live in New York and some them are in California, but we're all kind of in touch and like, you know, talk about getting together and things like that. So I think just from the point of people, all walks of life that you can meet, you know, these people went to a bunch of different schools. Some people had completely different backgrounds. Some of them are pursuing their PhDs now. So it's just the breadth of people that it allowed me to know. I think that was amazing. I also did a lot of things in Tennessee I'd never done in my life, like, that was the first time I hiked, you know, it was the first time I went whitewater rafting. It was, you know, it was a lot of things I did there, that were just very, very enjoyable for me. And Tennessee was just such a beautiful place, you know. Prior to going to Tennessee, I didn't like mac and cheese, and I had mac and cheese, then I was like, - oh, this is amazing. You know, this, - It's all about the right person making the mac and cheese, right? - You know? Yeah. - There's that you know, so there's, I think there's like just things that you go there and like, you know, it shapes some part of life and like, you know, it made me, and when I think about being a more outdoorsy person, that was kind of where it started from. So I really, really enjoyed that. Just so, just from a personal growth life, like you know, I 100% would say, you know, go experience that if you can. And you know, on the other side of just like, you know, the things that you could learn, you know, I had to make posters, I had to present at the Ignite Off. I had to talk about my poster, you know. I had to, you know, work with people that, oh my God, are they smart, you know. Like there's PhDs out there and there's multiple masters and I was just like, it was just a bunch of impressive people out there that you get to work with and learn from. Kind of like, I think that's just such a great opportunity. And you know, and I did the NESLS program, but I know there's a lot of people that had a bunch of different programs. I think there's also an AI program, that I had friends on there as well too. So there's a breadth of things you can do as well too, you know, like in the nuclear space and if you're in the AI space as well too. And I think one other interesting thing I learned is, you know, when you say NESLS to certain people, they probably just think nuclear engineering or like, I'm not a nuclear engineering buff, I think regardless of your background, this space is for you to kind of fit in. Like, you know, I was a CS person and like, you know, I kind of fit into that mold and that space. So, I think it is definitely a really good opportunity and like it is very, it's somewhat different from like, you know, what you'd do if you're just interviewing like a random company say like at a, at a national lab. So it is definitely a great experience that I'm glad I had. Like yeah, I 100% would recommend, for sure. - Awesome. Well and I think what you just said is really important. You don't, even though in the NESLS program, you know, it's nuclear security, nuclear engineering focus, that wasn't where you came from, - Yeah. - you came from computer science. So, you have all of these different people, with different skill sets, different backgrounds, working together in collaboration. And that is, kind of science in a nutshell, right? I mean everyone comes to the table. - Yep, absolutely. - From a different perspective. - Yeah, absolutely. I was trying to, you know, look up someone on my LinkedIn now, there's a man that works in the NESLS space as well too, and he does have a CS background as well too. And he did a, he does a lot today, like in the NESLS space. He was one of those people I kind of looked up to during my internship, because you know, he was very smart, I like him, you know, he was very helpful. So kind of like you said, I think there's a lot of people with different backgrounds that came from there, I mean, I found the typical people that nuclear engineering, bachelor's degree, master's degree, PhD, but there was also people that were completely different and everyone was kind of working together in the same space and I was like, oh this is kind of cool. So yeah, I definitely did enjoy that, sure. - That's awesome. Seni, last question for you, what brings you joy? - That's a very good question. I think, I really enjoy helping people, but from an educational standpoint, like I think helping them like, you know, find their way to STEM or find, I think one experience I remember a lot is I kind of like eating. I like food and things like that. There's very few things I could do that could make me forget that, oh my god, I was hungry. And I remember this one time, I was the president of National Society of Black Engineers at my college and you know, we're going through like a resume session with like certain people to kind of help them get internships and things like that. And I probably did it for four hours, skipped lunch and just did the entire thing. - Oh my God. - And I completely forgot about everything that was happening, because they just gave me so much joy to do that. And I really enjoy doing that. Like, you know, I think there's a lot of, I have this thought in my head that there's a lot of very qualified or can be very qualified, good people, and there's a lot of good opportunities out there, but what isn't very common or what isn't enough is the amount of bridges that connects these people to those opportunities. And I enjoy being one of that. I enjoy, you know, just even if it's just, if it's 15 minutes or 30 minutes that I can have, I'll call with someone to give them more guidance, or let them know what has kind of worked for me somewhere, something I know worked for a friend that could potentially help them. It could be life-changing so, that brings me a lot of joy. That is very enjoyable to me. So I guess summary of that would be just kind of being that bridge that connects those, you know, qualified or could be qualified people with those opportunities that exist is definitely something that, you know, I'd say brings me a lot of joy. - Awesome. Well, and I said last question, but as you were speaking, - another thought came to my mind. - Yeah, for sure. - Particularly as you talked about being a bridge, you're, you know, you're black; diversity is important in sciences. Do you feel yourself, see yourself as being a bridge to other young brown and, black students who want to get involved in sciences? Is, is that part of what brings that joy for you, as well, to help the underserved, underrepresented young scientists, or people interested in science, get into STEM? - Yeah, I mean, I think I would say that is still a part, or that's still something that is probably being developed or that I'm still kind of, how to say that I, something is being developed in me. So why I say that is, I mentioned like kind of growing up in Nigeria, where you know almost everybody is black - Sure - kinda thing. So kind of until coming here at some point I didn't, you know, see, or maybe I, it, maybe it just wasn't in my head. But I didn't feel that light bulb in my head to kind of be that, oh, you know, me being black in this space helps other people that potentially could be black being motivated to get into that. It was a thing that, that was a light bulb that came on when I was here. So, you know, - OK - I think it's something that's still being developed. I think about it though from a standpoint of like, if you're an immigrant that comes here, it can be very hard and you know, or to any other country, it can be very hard, and there are a lot of things to navigate. You talk about just culture, educational wise, finding opportunities, navigating your space. There's so many things in that space. That area, I know, I think I personally experienced that and I'm very passionate about just helping like, you know, any and every international student that I can, you know, in America or in other places. So that, you know, I think is, that is in me. Like, you know, I say, I wanna do that, but along the way as well too, if I can be, you know, hey, I can see this black person in Microsoft or in Google or Apple and that helps me believe that I can be that as well too, it's like an added bonus that's just great. So it's like, you know, why not? So yeah, I just, you know, try to help the people that I can and like, you know, whatever else good comes out of that, it's amazing to me. - Awesome. Well thank you so much for sharing that, and thank you for sharing your story. I really appreciate you taking the time Seni to, talk to me, to help our audience understand more about who you are, where you've come from, and the, the passion and the joy you obviously have for the work that you do in helping other people find their way as well. So thank you so much for spending time with me. - For sure. Thank you for having me. You know, it's always fun and exciting to talk about this. So yeah, glad I could do it. - Awesome. Thank you so much. Have a great day. - All right, you as well. Bye. - [Narrator] Thank you for listening to the ORISE Featurecast. To learn more about the Oak Ridge Institute for Science and Education, visit orise.orau.gov. Or find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at @oriseconnect. If you like the ORISE Featurecast, give us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. The Oak Ridge Institute for Science.