- What I like about the fellowship position is that I haven't really separated myself from research. So whereas I'm not doing the research, I'm still involved in the research, just other folks are doing it now. And one of the nice points about the fellowship and working within the DOE with that whole slew of projects that you're working on, is that you get exposure to many different types of projects. - [Presenter] This is the ORISE Featurecast. Join host, Michael Holtz, for conversations with ORISE experts on STEM workforce development, scientific and technical reviews, and the evaluation of radiation exposure and environmental contamination. You'll also hear from ORISE research program participants and their mentors as they talk about their experiences, and how they are helping shape the future of science. Welcome to the ORISE Featurecast. - Welcome to the ORISE Featurecast. As ever, I'm your host Michael Holtz in the communications and marketing department at the Oak Ridge Institute for Science and Education. And I'm really excited today to be talking to a new friend, Dr. Asha-Dee Celestine, who is an ORISE Science Technology and Policy Fellow at the US Department of Energy. And Asha-Dee, welcome. - Thank you. - To ORISE Featurecast. - Thank you for having me. - Tell me a little bit about who you are. As I said, you're a fellow at the Department of Energy. Tell me what you're doing with your fellowship. - Okay, so I'm a fellow in the Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Technologies office which is within the energy efficiency and renewable office within the DOE. Many of us is. I've been here, at the end of June it'll actually be three years, since I've been in this position. - Okay. - So I've been here for a little bit. I work primarily on hydrogen infrastructure and basically what that means is I focus on projects related to hydrogen storage and hydrogen delivery within the office. So I have a team that I work under our program manager and technology managers that I work with, helping to manage those projects and assess the projects, and also work on, like, strategy development, that kind of stuff for hydrogen. - Okay, so if I may, why is hydrogen important? - Hydrogen, it's a clean fuel. It's an energy carrier, I should say, first of all. It's an energy carrier - Okay. - And it's clean. You can get hydrogen from many different sources. We can produce it. Mainly the clean hydrogen's produced through electrolysis. And so, you can use solar and wind energy. You have your water, it goes through the electrolysis process and you get hydrogen. And then you can store that hydrogen which is the area that we focus on. But then later on, you can then use that hydrogen in fuel cells to produce electricity. So it's a clean form of energy. The only emissions that you have per se is water vapor, when the hydrogen recombines with the oxygen in the fuel cell. So we have hydrogen fuel cell vehicles on the road. A lot of them are in California. And it's interesting 'cause we've taken a couple of rides in them, and you ride in them, they ride just like any other vehicle. But then, you see the only emissions that you're getting is you get a little bit of, a little trickle of water coming out of the quote, unquote exhaust pipe at the end. So it's a clean fuel. - Right. - And so, in the past, a lot of our focus has been on using hydrogen for fuel cell vehicles. But hydrogen is also used to produce other chemicals. It's used in industry for steel making, for cement manufacturing. It's used in a wide host of avenues. And so the premise is that if we can use this clean energy carrier as opposed to other types of fuels, then we can really help decarbonize industry and decarbonize multiple environments. That's not the word that I wanna use. Various different areas, yeah. - Got ya, so really, in terms of reducing our carbon footprint, assisting with slowing climate change, all of those things. - Yes. - Hydrogen is an important element in our energy infrastructure. - Very, yes. - So you've been in your fellowship for coming on three years. Was science always something that you were interested in? Was it from childhood or was it something that you sort of came to later? - Yeah, I would say so. I've always liked math and science. - Okay. - I like equations, basically. - Right, right. - And so, I've always been really drawn towards math, chemistry, physics. So I grew up in Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean. And so, in high school what we do is we have different subjects. You have science in your first three years of high school, you kind of focus on science and math in general. But you have this opportunity in your last two years of high school to zone in on specific subjects. So you kind of choose the subject area that you wanna focus on. And so I focused on chemistry, math, physics, and we had something called advanced math. - Okay. - Which was like your calculus and all that good stuff. - Oh, I know. - And I enjoyed all of that. So I would say that I've always been drawn to science and math. Another part of my story is the fact that my dad was a diesel mechanic. - Okay. - By training, but he was also a jack of all trades. So that anything that needed to be fixed around the house, he could do it. There were very few times that we actually had to call in someone to do any sort of repair work 'cause he did that. And being the eldest of five, I was his, kind of, like, his handyman, right-hand man, slash woman, kind of helping out with those repairs. And I enjoyed it that- - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, so I really enjoyed it, and so I think those complimentary influences really helped me kind of sowed in on science and math, and engineering more specifically. - Gotcha, so, Asha-Dee, your dad was your first mentor? - I would say so, in a very informal way. - Sure. - But yes, definitely. - Sure, sure. So let's talk about mentorship. For you, how important have mentors been to the development of your career and your interest in staying in STEM fields? - Mentors, I think have, they've helped me get started on the path and they've helped me stay on the path. And a lot of it, not a lot of it, sorry, has been like this formal mentorship where, you know, you sit with someone and they walk you through. And a lot of it has been informal, just having conversations with different people. I had a great mentor in high school who mentored me on, not only on, like, the fundamentals in terms of subject areas of council, but she provided a lot of mentorship in terms of, like, leadership and potential. - Okay. - And so, that was one of my great mentors. And then when I went to college in undergrad, I had a mentor that had kind of drop into their office and just ask questions and get that advice. And I think just having someone that you can go to and provide just the right piece of advice at the right time has been instrumental in helping me move forward in my STEM career. So mentorship is definitely, definitely very important. And it comes in all different forms. And I've appreciated all the different forms that I've experienced. - Right, and have you had the opportunity to serve as a mentor for others? - I have. So prior to joining the DOE as a fellow, becoming an ORISE Fellow, I was actually a professor at Auburn University for about four years. - Okay. - So I had students in my class that I would mentor. But I also had researchers, undergraduate and graduate researchers that I worked with. And we'd have official work within the lab, you know, and I just drop in on the lab, and kind of guide them, provide mentorship there. But I also did a lot of outreach with incoming freshmen, with high school students and just providing that avenue for them to explore and to ask questions, and for me to provide, sometimes advice and sometimes just one word. 'Cause sometimes all you need is just one word, right. From someone at just the right time. - Sure. - And that helps to clarify things, that helps to motivate. And so, I've had a good few experiences and opportunities to do that over the years. - Wonderful, I have to ask you 'cause you mentioned that you were a professor at Auburn. You're the first faculty member I think I've talked to who made the leap from academia to the Department of Energy, to one of our fellowship programs. - Okay. - What has that been like for you? I imagine there are obvious differences between sort of the academic world and, you know, a federal laboratory system. - Actually, it's interesting that you say that because the reason I found out about the ORISE fellowship was I met a faculty member at a conference that I had attended. - Okay. - And at that time I was looking for ways to get more involved in policy and what the federal government was doing as related to STEM field. And I met someone at a conference and I said, "Yeah, I'm an ORISE Fellow." But they, I think the way they were doing it was they were in the fellowship for just two years and then they were returning to their faculty position. - Okay. - So it was a little bit different. But there are differences and similarities. You're still dealing with research. - Right. - But I think, I guess the main difference is whereas in academia you are performing the research or at least you have students that you're mentoring, and you are advising as they perform the research. Whereas with the federal government, we're funding the research and we're also managing the research projects, providing assessment of the research projects. And so, what I like about the fellowship position is that I haven't really separated myself from research. So whereas I'm not doing the research, I'm still involved in the research, just other folks are doing it now. And one of the nice points about the fellowship and working within the DOE with that whole slew of projects that you're working on, is that you get exposure to many different types of projects, right? So things that you, maybe you have to go to a conference and you have to attend multiple different talks to hear about what other folks are working on. What's nice about working in the DOE is that you get this host of projects that you can evaluate, you can kind of keep abreast of the field, which is one of the things that I do as part of my fellowship. - Okay. - In addition to, like, assess helping and assessing, and managing, I also have to keep on top of what are the latest developments, right? Because those are gonna benefit our projects as well. Hopefully that answers your question. - That does answer the question. And I also am thinking there must be a great deal of collaboration when you have so many disciplines working in, you know, in the same area but not necessarily the same kind of science. - Yes, yes. And so we see that a lot with our projects. A lot of our projects are these collaborations between industry, academia, our national labs. And so, it's really nice to see how they're able to build off of each other's strengths and really get a project moving from different technology readiness levels. And that's something that you, cause when you're in academia, you kind of focus on academia and you don't get that input. You don't get that perspective from the industry or from the national labs. And so, it's been a great experience, just seeing how all of those things fit together. - That sounds like a really wonderful experience. Is there a particular barrier that you've had to overcome? And I ask that realizing I'm speaking to, you know, a black woman in science, you know, were there barriers that you, and also you're from Trinidad and Tobago. So, you know, have there been particular barriers or that you've had to overcome to get to the point that you're today? - That's a good question. I tend not to think of them as barriers. - Okay, that's fair. - I think the most obvious one is a difference in culture. - Sure. - Right? And then there's a difference in the demographics as well, right? 'Cause in Trinidad where it's in the Caribbean, most of our population, the majority of our population are black and brown. - Okay. - Right? I mean, so coming to the US where you've switched that minority, majority type of percentages, that was a bit of a culture shock. - Sure. - I think one of the advantages I had when I came to the US was I did my undergrad at Howard University, which is a historically black college and university. It provided just the transition I needed to go from one culture to the next, but not be, like, face that stark difference in culture and demographics. - Yeah. - In terms of obstacles, yeah, it's hard to point out, like, I haven't faced any overt obstacles where, you know, like, I'm running towards something and definitely, there's this wall. - Okay. - But I know there've been instances where there, like, little things that like, okay, this doesn't make sense. Why is this harder for me than it is for someone else? And then you think about a new process and then you realize, okay, there are some things that have been set up, that they're set up in a way that it's not gonna be easy for you to progress. But I can't, like, I can't say that I've had these instances where it's like, yes, this is exactly what happened and I can't, but. - Gotcha. - But I've definitely had some times where I've like, okay, for everybody else, why is it easier for everybody else than it is for me? And I've had to kind of work through that. And that's where mentorship has been very useful for me in that having folks that I can go to and talk to, and say, this is what I'm experiencing. This is what I'm going through. Is this normal? Is this natural? And then just getting that feedback and also getting that advice on, okay, this is how you address this particular situation. And usually those happen, like, over lunch or. - Sure. - And so, those have been the strategies that I've used when things just don't seem to make sense. But they're not like those, that overt type of obstacle or barrier. Yeah. - I gotcha, okay. And I have to tell you I was actually on the Howard University campus last week for a conference. - Okay. - And it's a beautiful campus. - It is, it is beautiful. Great four years there. - Excellent, excellent. I'm assuming since you're in your third year of your fellowship that you have enjoyed your ORISE experience? - I have. - Would you recommended it to others? - Definitely, definitely. I've actually been, like any conference that I go to, any webinars that I attend, and I have an opportunity to speak with folks, especially, like, students who are just about to graduate from their masters or their PhD, and they're not sure about what they want to do. I'm, like, there's the ORISE fellowship, because it's such a unique opportunity to get embedded into federal government and with minimal experience, right? 'Cause a lot of these jobs that are advertised, they want two, three years experience and there's this long list. But I think the ORISE fellowship is just this unique opportunity where you can go straight from your post-graduate degree, get embedded into federal government, get into an office. And the way we treat our fellows is we treat them like they're no different from our technology managers. Of course, they have different responsibilities, but you're not like set aside and you are only exposed to specific things. You get exposed to everything within the office. And I think that's a definite plus for students as they leave. And it's not just for students, right? Because for example, for myself I wasn't a student when I applied. I had already been in academia. I started my career there. And being able to transition to the ORISE fellowship has been a blessing. I would say it's been a blessing, just the way that I've been able to use my experience to help, but also to learn about how things are done, and to decide whether federal service or government services is what it is I wanna continue working, yeah. - And is that, I guess to ask the obvious question, is that where you see yourself? - I do wanna continue in this field. There's a lot of great work that's being done. And just the fact that, you know, you have the opportunity to contribute in that area, and you may not see, like, you're not gonna see it tomorrow, right? But you know that the work that you're working on is making a difference not just in your field, especially 'cause we deal with clean energy and decarbonization. But it's gonna make a difference across the globe because the technologies that we're working on, that we're funding, they're gonna drive newer developments down the road. So I think this is something that I'd like to continue working in. - Awesome, interviewing, great work. And for the greater good. - Yes. - Who doesn't love to be part of a mission like that. - Exactly, exactly. - Asha-Dee Celestine, one more question for you. What brings you joy? - What brings me, wow, that's a very deep question. What brings me joy is I think helping people. - Okay. - Definitely, helping people. And it takes different forms. I enjoy teaching and that's a form of helping people. - Absolutely. - 'Cause for me, I see it as a way of helping folks understand. I enjoy service, I do a lot of volunteer work. And I enjoy, like I say, I use my muscles for good kind of way, I like service. So I would say helping people. I enjoy music and my church. I do audio engineering. - Okay. - It brings me joy because I love music, but I'm able to mix the sounds together so that other people enjoy, enjoy the music. - Very nice. - And so, it's a service type of thing. So I would say what brings me joy is soothing others. - Awesome. - That's a very good question. - And I love your answer. I think that's great. And I think you're right, serving people. And you're clearly doing it in many different ways. - Yeah. - And I love that. So, Dr. Asha-Dee Celestine, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I really appreciate it. - Thank you. Thank you for having me. - Absolutely, have a great day. - Thank you. - [Presenter] Thank you for listening to the ORISE Featurecast. To learn more about the Oak Ridge Institute for Science and Education, visit orise.orau.gov or find us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @oriseconnect. If you like the ORISE Featurecast, give us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. The Oakridge Institute for Science and Education is managed by ORAU for the US Department of Energy.